ASE Labs: Toyota Starts Ethanol Cars

SySAdmin

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Toyota Starts Ethanol Cars

Tue Oct 10, 2006 6:16:30 AM #25271 Perm Link

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»Toyota Starts Ethanol Cars

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Thefremen

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Re: Toyota Starts Ethanol Cars

Tue Oct 10, 2006 9:14:55 AM #25293 Perm Link

In response to SySAdmin #25271

This is really good news for the Midwest and Hawaii. Also, the cane plants are starting to make eating utensils from cane pulp instead of burning it. They're pretty bitching.

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Haggard

Joined: March 25, 2003 Status: Offline Posts: 1378 Rep:

Re[2]: Toyota Starts Ethanol Cars

Tue Oct 10, 2006 9:18:05 AM #25295 Perm Link

In response to Thefremen #25293

Said By aphremen
This is really good news for the Midwest and Hawaii. Also, the cane plants are starting to make eating utensils from cane pulp instead of burning it. They're pretty bitching.

Prove It. (assuming your talking about the utensils)

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SAMSAMHA Joined: September 26, 2005 Status: Offline Posts: 274 Rep:

Re[3]: Toyota Starts Ethanol Cars

Tue Oct 10, 2006 1:03:45 PM #25310 Perm Link

In response to Haggard #25295

if they can find a safe way to use it, then it would be great.

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Tornado

Retro Grade Joined: August 16, 2003 Status: Offline Posts: 2958 Rep:

Re: Toyota Starts Ethanol Cars

Tue Oct 10, 2006 1:05:37 PM #25312 Perm Link

And a collective "so what" is heard from everyone who actually knows how much good ethanol will actually do, particularly in the U.S. but also world-wide.

Michael: Jodie, how's my schedule look for today?
Jodie: You've got a conference and dinner party at the Japanese Embassy regarding wildlife protection.
Michael: Oh, yeah...sorry, but I'll have to cancel that. I'm heading out to save America!

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Aron Schatz

2014: Year of change. Joined: August 3, 2001 Status: Offline Posts: 10753 Rep:

Re[2]: Toyota Starts Ethanol Cars

Tue Oct 10, 2006 2:41:45 PM #25313 Perm Link

In response to Tornado #25312

Sorry Tornado. That's dead wrong.

Sugarcane ethanol will provide much more energy per unit than corn based. Brazil does this with sugercane already. They seem to not have an oil problem.

2014 is going to be a good year. More content, more streamlining. Be a part of history!

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Tornado

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Re[3]: Toyota Starts Ethanol Cars

Tue Oct 10, 2006 3:59:41 PM #25314 Perm Link

In response to Aron Schatz #25313

Said By Aron Schatz
Sorry Tornado. That's dead wrong.

Sugarcane ethanol will provide much more energy per unit than corn based. Brazil does this with sugercane already. They seem to not have an oil problem.

That is true. But it does not, however, negate the fact that ethanol is merely a convenient stopgap at best, and that there is still no feasible way to convert every new car sold into ethanol only. Yeah, doing it in Brazil is great. But, um, not very many new cars are sold in Brazil. In addition, the same problem that plagues corn-based ethanol will plague this, only more so: There is simply not enough space to make enough ethanol to run every thing in the world deidicated to petrol. This plagues sugar cane even more than corn-based ethanol, in fact, as sugar cane can not be grown in as many places.
Yeah, running mixtures is great. But basing the entire alternative fuels crisis on ethanol will cause a global problem when fossil fuels (which are still cheaper and more efficient to use to actually produce ethanol anyways) run out. It's the same reason that the idea of hydrogen cars is garbage.

Michael: Jodie, how's my schedule look for today?
Jodie: You've got a conference and dinner party at the Japanese Embassy regarding wildlife protection.
Michael: Oh, yeah...sorry, but I'll have to cancel that. I'm heading out to save America!

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Aron Schatz

2014: Year of change. Joined: August 3, 2001 Status: Offline Posts: 10753 Rep:

Re[4]: Toyota Starts Ethanol Cars

Tue Oct 10, 2006 5:54:51 PM #25318 Perm Link

In response to Tornado #25314

Hydrogen is not garbage. Neither is anything else that is an energy storage. If you have a good supply of energy such as nuclear or fusion, these are good solutions.

2014 is going to be a good year. More content, more streamlining. Be a part of history!

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Tornado

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Tue Oct 10, 2006 7:00:33 PM #25319 Perm Link

The problem is that until hydrogen production completely gets away from fossil fuels, it is a useless alternative. Especially since it is technically less efficient than fossil fuels due to transitive loss of energy. The same applies to ethanol, except ethanol is even worse as it isn't a possible full alternative for fossil fuels like hydrogen could be.

Michael: Jodie, how's my schedule look for today?
Jodie: You've got a conference and dinner party at the Japanese Embassy regarding wildlife protection.
Michael: Oh, yeah...sorry, but I'll have to cancel that. I'm heading out to save America!

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Aron Schatz

2014: Year of change. Joined: August 3, 2001 Status: Offline Posts: 10753 Rep:

(No Title)

Tue Oct 10, 2006 7:02:33 PM #25320 Perm Link

In response to Tornado #25319

You have all negatives about alternate sources of energy but pose no alternatives yourself.

What is your suggestion?

2014 is going to be a good year. More content, more streamlining. Be a part of history!

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Tornado

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Tue Oct 10, 2006 7:03:40 PM #25321 Perm Link

Personally, I say put more effort into developing different ways to produce hydrogen other than fossil fuels; and in the meantime switch over to natural gas, diesel fuels and vegetable oil. Which means lowering the rediculous emmissions standards that make mass-produced diesels all but impossible in America.
In addition, I truthfully don't have any real alternative, but there is no possible way for ethanol to be one, and hydrogen would only work if the way it is developed changes completely. Supprtign what is essentially a stop-gap solution does not solve the problem. It merely delays it.

Michael: Jodie, how's my schedule look for today?
Jodie: You've got a conference and dinner party at the Japanese Embassy regarding wildlife protection.
Michael: Oh, yeah...sorry, but I'll have to cancel that. I'm heading out to save America!

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Thefremen

LOL whut? Joined: September 29, 2002 Status: Offline Posts: 2475 Rep:

(No Title)

Tue Oct 10, 2006 7:49:28 PM #25345 Perm Link

In response to Tornado #25321

Well, Aron will teach you some things about burning grass but for now, lemmie just say this as a resident of Hawaii: EAT IT Alaska! We have sugar cane AND geothermal so either way we are the new Power source bitch! You want Hydrogen? Go to Big Island or Maui. You want ethanol? Go to Maui....hell, go anywhere in the state!

Mwahahahahaha!

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Aron Schatz

2014: Year of change. Joined: August 3, 2001 Status: Offline Posts: 10753 Rep:

(No Title)

Wed Oct 11, 2006 11:47:47 AM #25361 Perm Link

Switchgrass is the key for cellulose ethanol production. There is enough farmland in America to do this as well including keeping with food production.

http://www.harvestcleanenergy.org/enews/enews_0505/enews_0505_Cellulosic_Ethanol.htm
http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/Business/story?id=1566784

I was going to write a big post, but I got lazy. Those are some links to read over.

2014 is going to be a good year. More content, more streamlining. Be a part of history!

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Tornado

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Wed Oct 11, 2006 11:54:45 AM #25362 Perm Link

This is a new type of ethanol to learn up on. Give me a day to look up on it. I assumed you were going to use corn of sugar cane, so I prepared for those.

Michael: Jodie, how's my schedule look for today?
Jodie: You've got a conference and dinner party at the Japanese Embassy regarding wildlife protection.
Michael: Oh, yeah...sorry, but I'll have to cancel that. I'm heading out to save America!

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Aron Schatz

2014: Year of change. Joined: August 3, 2001 Status: Offline Posts: 10753 Rep:

(No Title)

Wed Oct 11, 2006 11:59:40 AM #25364 Perm Link

In response to Tornado #25362

Na. Those take too much fuel to produce. Switchgrass is crazy efficient.

2014 is going to be a good year. More content, more streamlining. Be a part of history!

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Toyota Starts Ethanol Cars

Said By aphremen

Said By Aron Schatz

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